I see morals as being summaries of stories (a nice way of giving a message, "the moral of this story...") and something that changes with society on a regular basis which can't be counted on from decade to decade, sometimes as little as from year to year. To take that even further, sometimes it changes from situation to situation with some people.
Morals seems, to me, to be things that other people judge you on.
Which, is just another reason why I summarily dislike the concept. You only truly have to answer to yourself in the end. Who really cares what anyone else thinks of you or what you do?
And if you're doing something just because of what someone else might think of it, does it really count for anything anyway?
Ethics, to me, are the things you hold dear and true to yourself - even when no one else is looking. Actually, especially when no one else is looking and holding you accountable for your actions.
That's when it really counts.
You have determined a set of rules for yourself and they're so set in stone that you would rather slit your own throat than break your own rules.
I have ethics coming out of my eyeballs.
Integrity and ethics, from what I've sorted out so far, seem to be interchangeable. The jury is still out on that stance, however. I'm more than willing to listen to anyone elses definitions though in order to better figure out my own. So if you have any input, feel free to express it.
I'm hoping to learn something.
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Oh, wow, I'm too tired to contemplate this tonight. Can I get back to you tomorrow? While I've found OTC drugs that have got my allergy/cold slightly tamed, I still feel awful and cannot hear out of my right ear. So I'm not thinking straight. Maybe I'd better go back to the Impale post.....
ReplyDeleteI have nothing I can add. This is smart and correct. I hope your headache is gone.
ReplyDeleteI agree on the morals bit, it is what people judge you against, and the judge people against different sets of them based on thir relationship or prejudice against them. basically it boils down to hippocritical behavior on their part.
ReplyDeleteEthics - is how you act in a situation so it could be morals or based on them , but I agree it is what you hold yourself accountable for.
(No I am not being a yes man here)
Integrity in MHO is the predictability to stick with your ethics. If you have integrity, you will not be easily swayed from your ethics or someone's perception of them (aka morals)
the Ponti has spoken.....
Had this debate a while back. Morals are fairly fluid. Many people conclude that polyamory is immoral. So? The issue is - What rules can we apply to everyone?
ReplyDeleteAnymore, right or wrong (and it's wrong) the words morals and ethics have become interchangeable. That's bad for everyone. But since they are roughly interchangeable in our culture, I stick to defining their influence.
That definition of influence should be the ABSOLUTE fewest number of rules that should be applied across the board to promote harmonious cohabitation and a civil society. That means I politely tip my cap to the happy couple with their 28 kids heading off to the fundamentalist church service.
And in a right world, they'd tip their cap as I'm heading out to an orgy. That's an ethical detente between civilized people. God, Razor, did you have to bring up such an interesting topic? I'm babbling here.
I'm pretty sure the point here is that I have no problem with hypocrisy, as long as it doesn't infringe on my freedoms. Let people believe what they want, but don't force me to live their beliefs. If a hypocrite wants to go off to church, then go home and jerk off to porn, what do I care? As long as the courtesy of not caring is returned.
OK, OK, I'll post on this at some point and shut up here.
And I was just browsing the comments and noticed something that makes me very happy two above my first comment. Insert devilish laugh here.
ReplyDeletePM!!
ReplyDeleteIntegrity is the predictability to stick with your ethics.
That's PERFECT! That was the key thing that I was missing that was bothering me! THANK YOU!
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The Toy -
That's exactly why I maintain that laws should NEVER be based on morals. They should be based strictly and solely on the betterment of society.
which is why anyone with any sense should stay far, far away from ever talking to me about Civil Confinement POST felony sentence COMPLETION... I could very well become an attorney on that issue alone. The energy created from being 100% pissed about that could fuel years of required education to me...
I've been debating on whether what you wrote should be considered hypocrisy or not.
One of the things I go around saying to people on a daily basis is: at the very least, don't make things worse. Really, if you can't figure out a way to make things better - at least don't make things worse.
I think in your scenario, is it required for you to tip your hat to a happy couple with 28 kids going off to church?
No, not really.
and vice versa
It's just good if you don't stone them to death on the way. Even sheer indifference to each others way of living is preferable.
Your way is obviously better, I'm just not sure that it's humanly possible.
I say this because you started me thinking about all the different aspects of life and I can't come up with any one solid thing that people have universally accepted.
Political stance.
Religion.
Sexuality.
Child bearing.
Child raising.
...nothing.
I can't think of one thing that anyone can be without there being some kind of other group of people through out history that hasn't either tried to destroy said group - or at least oppose it to such a degree as to cause strife in some ones life.
Ironically, I even got flack from staying home and raising my own kids from a group of "working mom's" in the past.
you can well imagine how amused I was by that one.......which, I truly was! It didn't work out so well for everyone else, but that's a whole other story...
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P&I - Hope you feel better.
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The Glorified G! -
I'm so glad you started a journal and that you came over here!
You know I have zero morals. I might do anything, at any time, any where depending on what's required. I have just that one ethic: don't harm the innocent.
ReplyDeleteMorals, as you said are just judgemental bullshit that changes with the decades.
I want to do more than survive... I want to thrive. And that absolutely means never being moral about my choices.
Erin - thanks for your input but I must say that I disagree with "And that absolutely means never being moral about my choices."
ReplyDeleteThe results of your decisions will cause people to review the situation and then judge your decisions...therefore based on their prejudices and how the outcome may align with said prejudices they may feel that it was the moral thing to do.
I do like that you will follow your ethics to the end and also that you will do what you need to in order to survive. Screw the hypocritical closed minded masses and what gets their undies in a bunch. :-)
Ahhh, this was the post I was looking for! This is exactly what I needed tonight. I've been contemplating this article on you're the opposite of what you say & you just helped me.
ReplyDeleteAs to morals, hey, I'm the one that said I would get me another wife or 2 or hubby or 2 if my hubby was up for it, but oh well. So is that immoral if I 'would' do it but can't because my very moral half isn't up for it? Hmmmm.
Ethics: echoing Erin above "Don't harm the innocent." I agree with her completely. Try your best to live your best life and not hurt others. Other than that, it's YOUR life: Do what you wanna do.
And the people judging you are the ones that don't deserve any internet real estate on your blog or any real face time. Those toxic people will kill your spirit.
But, if you ARE going to be immoral and without ethics, I simply DEMAND to hear all the juicy details!
It is nice to see some existentialists about.
ReplyDelete